In Conversation with… Harry Hugo, Co-Founder of The Goat Agency
Serial Entrepreneur and Co-Founder of The Goat Agency, Harry Hugo, joins the conversation to talk social media, influencer marketing and founding Goat.
“It’s all about data! You need to understand what’s happened and worked in the past through that process of trial and error to predict how successful influencers will be.”
Over the last five years or so, influencer marketing has grown from unfamiliar term to global phenomenon, with marketing budgets across every industry pouring into the practice at an astonishing pace. This year, 65% of marketing influencer budgets have risen, up from 29% in 2018. And today, 17% of marketing teams spend more than half their budget on influencer marketing.
I visited Goat’s London office to chat to Harry and find out more about his journey, what influencer marketing looks like today and how it’s going to be disrupted in the future.
Caitlin: You’ve had a very interesting career for someone who’s just 24! Can you tell us about how you started your journey to founding Goat?
Harry: When I was 16, I set up a football journalism platform after I was told by a load of newspapers that I was too young to be a part of a newspaper (and despite my arrogant belief that I was better than all the journalists that were there!). I decided to build a journalism product around football, and within 18 months we’d scaled to 500 writers worldwide writing 350 articles a day.
A year later I was the youngest-ever sports writer for The Times despite being rejected the year back (now that was very satisfying!).
Caitlin: And you had another venture before you started Goat?
Harry: Before I went on to co-found Goat, three of us started a company called Sportlobster which effectively tried to take on Facebook and Twitter to become the sports social network. Unfortunately, this was during their absolute peak in 2012–2014 so it didn’t last. But we raised £17m investment in two years and went from five people in a room in London Bridge to 17. I was 18 when we started this venture, and it really was an amazing journey!
Caitlin: After these ventures, how did you get into influencer marketing?
Harry: We started getting into influencer marketing at Sportlobster actually, but that was before it became the practice it is today.
Our number one business objective at that time was to drive new acquisition of users to the app. And that meant that we had to find the marketing channel that was the most effective at driving those acquisitions for the cheapest price with the best quality users. And we tried everything. We sponsored the NFL response to the NBA. We had Christiano Ronaldo as our headline ambassador. We bought ads on train carriages, TV, radio, billboards, paper and print – everywhere we could. And then one day I asked one of my friends who had a base of 100,000 followers on Twitter to share a post about us. It generated 2,000 downloads overnight.
So we decided to repeat the experiment with Christiano Ronaldo who had about 120 million followers on Twitter – and he got just 2,000 downloads as well. There didn’t seem to be much correlation between number of followers and downloads, so we ran the test across different accounts, with anything from 100–100,000 followers, and about 80% of them didn’t deliver the results, while 20% did.
We realised there wasn’t a blueprint on how to drum up engagement using these influencers. It was a case of understanding audience loyalty, something which has so many different variables and requires trial and error to understand. But when you get it right, it’s the most effective channel for engagement, so we decided to dedicate much of our marketing efforts to fine-tuning influencer marketing.
Caitlin: Do you use data to understand how much engagement your influencers can create?
Harry: It’s all about data! You need to understand what’s happened and worked in the past through that process of trial and error to predict how successful influencers will be.
Caitlin: So when did you decide to set up Goat?
Harry: Because our team was so focused on influencer marketing internally, we ended up doing it on a bigger scale than anywhere else in the UK – and doing it the most effectively. We realised that the work we were doing was a better business proposition than the rest of Sportlobster. So when the business ended, we set up Goat in mid-2015 to focus purely on influencer marketing.
Caitlin: How has influencer marketing changed in the five years since you started using it?
Harry: It’s changed a lot – there’s just been so many shifts in how platforms work and the features they have. For example, it was all about Snapchat in 2016, then marketers were really focused on Facebook. Then Instagram stories were particularly disruptive… And today, Tik Tok’s become a really big thing that everyone’s trying to monetise.
All this change means that we can’t get precious and we can’t get biased about what approach or platform or feature we use, because that’s how you end up becoming redundant. You’ve got to welcome that change in this industry.
Caitlin: Speaking of new things in the influencer marketing space: what’s your opinion of virtual influencers like Lil Miquela and Margot?
Harry: I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I get it!
I think virtual influencers thrive off of human curiosity because we’re so weirded out we want to see what happens – meaning they drive a lot of interest. I do question how much brand loyalty they have though. Influencer marketing is all about authenticity and virtual influencers are just about the least authentic thing in the world.
Having said that, what I do like about them is that they’re so scalable. If they have the longevity that some people believe they do, then they’re potentially the most scalable way of doing influencer marketing. You simply build a virtual influencer, create a perfect story, a perfect niche… Like the dawn of the Facebook page, you could build a specific community around that ‘person’.
Caitlin: How about AI and influencer marketing? Do you think it’s going to change things?
Harry: At the moment, we use AI to source influencers and map out how good we think they’re going to be. But it’s not something I expect is going to be particularly disruptive to influencer marketing at the moment.
“AI is going to help us get better at sourcing influencers and picking out the best content to use”
I think AI is going to help us get better at sourcing influencers and picking out the best content to use, but influencer marketing is about human understanding and human interaction. That’s not just choosing the best content, it’s also about empathising and managing those influencers as people as well.
Caitlin: What trends do you see impacting social media and influencer marketing most in the future?
Harry: What’s going to change is how and where people communicate with each other.
Word-of-mouth has always been the best way of referring customers. But the places where these conversations happen is always changing.
It used to be that word-of-mouth recommendations happened ‘down the pub’, then it was on the phone, then it moved to the internet and social media platforms. Today, people are moving to more private conversations on messaging apps like WhatsApp, what we call ‘dark social’.
People are having these conversations still, they just ‘hang out’ in different places. The challenge has always been the same: reaching them to start that conversation.
A new breed of marketing tools is here that leverages machine learning and psychology to pick high-converting creatives for your Facebook ads.
Cutting-edge AI (artificial intelligence) research into how computers see marketing images is changing the way marketers build more successful campaigns.
Growth Tribe’s Bernardo Nunes joins the conversation to talk artificial intelligence in marketing: how companies can leverage AI and cultivate tech talent.
Adtech and martech are terms that are regularly conflated. Let’s put aside misconceptions to define adtech and martech – and their differences.
Personalisation means connecting with your audience on a deeper level. Our Head of Psychology, Jergan Callebaut, looks at its many forms.
Datasine’s CEO Igor Volzhanin outlines his MAD//Fest presentation, explaining why using creative data and AI leads to a steep increase in ad performance.
Experienced Growth Marketer Mohamed El Hannaoui joins the conversation to talk growth marketing in startups and how AI is going to change marketing
Got your attention with the picture above? Great! I’m sure you’ll love the rest of this article. It probably doesn’t come as a surprise to you that we live in the age of visual culture. Ten percent of all photos ever taken by humankind took place in the last 12 months.
Facebook Ads A/B testing is crucial to understanding what marketing content works best. Datasine’s PPC Manager outlines how Facebook Ads A/B tests work in this simple guide.
The data boom has driven focus on areas such as targeting, brand and reach for Facebook Ads, yet the creative remains the most impactful factor in successful Facebook Ads
Datasine talks marketing, AI and personalisation with Emily Miller, Head of Marketing at Ollie Quinn, ahead of her fireside chat at #SuperchargeMarketing.
Datasine looks at the five of the best – and most affordable – tools on the market for creating and optimising Facebook Ads.
Growth hacking Facebook ads sends engagement skyrocketing and there are many ways to optimise paid ads to drive brand awareness and sales.
Creative data has been overlooked by marketers. But at Datasine we’ve found a way to drive performance with this powerful data: Content Atomisation – supercharged by AI.
A McKinsey report has concluded that marketers who use creativity and data together achieve a much higher performance for their brand
Datasine discusses growth marketing, personalisation and AI adoption with Mitch Platt, UK Country Manager at Grow Tribe, ahead of his presentation at #SuperchargeMarketing.
Datasine talks to Mack Grenfell, Biddable Lead at Babylon Health about falling into the industry, and how AI is helping marketers optimise spend.
Discover the benefits semantic content analysis brings, and how to utilise data, psychology and AI to predict the highest-converting content for your brand.
Data-driven marketing is a key focus for marketing teams today. I spoke with Alessio Pieroni, Head of Marketing at Mindvalley about how to practice it successfully.
Data-driven disruption is sweeping through creative industries. We sit down with Wayne Deakin, Executive Creative Director at Huge EMEA to talk about facing it head on.
Check out our top nine Mailchimp integration picks for empowering marketers to increase campaign metrics and improve customer experiences.
Head of Content & Product Marketing at Attest, Meagan Healey, joins the conversation to talk data-driven marketing and why aligning sales and marketing is a game changer.
Datasine discusses the tools that make marketing work, and finding the right balance when personalising communications with Karla Rivershaw, Head of Marketing at Turtl.
For International Women’s Day 2020, 20 female marketing leaders weigh in on the advice they’d give their younger selves [1/2]
Datasine Connect, Datasine’s AI platform, analysed the 12 official art posters for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic games to discover which was the most engaging for the UK population
Datasine’s Performance Marketing Manager gives 3 simple steps for building better Facebook Ads, including optimising creatives and using AI
Datasine’s Marketing Director, Cornel Lazar, shares the questions each brand must ask before rebranding, and Datasine’s journey to change its look and feel.
Datasine talks about personalising marketing communications and marketing tools with Emma Wynne, Head of Growth Marketing at Pasta Evangelists.
Email is one of the most effective marketing channels and Mailchimp has long been a favourite amongst marketers and growth hackers. Learn how to up your Mailchimp newsletter game with our growth hacks.
While artificial intelligence (AI) has had little impact on the creative sector so far, AI has huge potential to optimise ad creatives
Datasine sits down with the two guest speakers of Marketing 20:20, Becky Simms, Founder and CEO of Reflect Digital and Social Media Expert Kieran S Lawler
Brand Manager and Founder of Maxtractor.agency, Magda Urbaniak, shares her best practices for brands paid and organic social efforts
Images are the cornerstone of successful Facebook ads. We look at how to find the best images to create more effective Facebook ads.
I sat down with our Marketing Director to discuss what a rebrand is, what goes into a rebrand and how Datasine approached the project.
We look back on our first day at MAD//Fest with presentations from Burger King, Virgin Trains and our own CEO Igor Volzhanin.
Data and AI are becoming more vital to the role of the Creative Director. Datasine sits down with Alex Colley, Creative Director of ikon, to find out more about the impact tech is having.
For International Women’s Day 2020, 20 female marketing leaders weigh in on the advice they’d give their younger selves [2/2]
How mirroring can help you level up the impact of your one-to-many communications, offering personalised content and customer experience.
Datasine sits down with Lemlist CEO Guillaume Moubeche to talk about delivering personalised email marketing experiences and building relationships.
Artificial intelligence (AI) is increasingly used in email marketing, learn how machine learning enhances personalised email campaigns.
Facebook dynamic ads, or Facebook product ads, let you remarket to your audience. Find out how to use them in this simple guide to DPA ads.
Segmentation in marketing allows marketers to place customers into groups for targeting. We take a look at the types of market segmentation.
Datasine looks back at the five things we learned at Supercharge Marketing, from data-driven marketing to investing in learning new skills.
In crisis times, marketing budgets get slashed. Here’s how we can support you to stretch your budget further and drive sales – even in the face of a pandemic.
Datasine sits down with Flavilla Fongang, Creative Brand Strategist and Founder 3 Colours Rule to talk branding, neuromarketing and the future of the industry
A/B testing has long been used to find the perfect ad creative – but its effectivess is greatly exaggerated. Here's the truth of A/B testing, and how to find the best creative without it.
We see thousands of images online every day. We take a trip back over the history of the digital image to see how we got to this point.
Artificial intelligence (AI) should be taking marketing by storm, but its lack of interpretability for most marketers is holding back innovation and adoption.
AI can drive marketing success by optimising audience targeting and reach but, more importantly, AI optimise your creative content through Content Atomisation.
We speak Joe Stevens, Corporate Digital Marketing Manager at Flight Centre about using data to send the right message to the right person at the right time
Learn how developing an Integrator Mindset can help you to creatively personalise and build genuine relationships with your customers
Lack of customer loyalty is a key problem in the travel industry. We take a look at some of the ways data can tackle the issue.
Data-driven marketing has swept through the industry, but the data focus has led to a decline in creativity. But you can combine data and creativity by uncovering your campaign’s creative data.